Remove this ad

Lead

Jan 24 17 5:05 AM

Tags : :

Combining light troopsSome ancient armies including the Numidians, Spanish and Successors included very numerous light troops who fought in large masses.  To represent these, before the battle starts, two identical light units may combine to form a combined unit. Players may not combine units of lights from different lines in an army list, except where specifically mentioned in an army list.Such units have two hits, becoming disordered after a single hit and lost after a second, in which case two medals are surrendered.  Combined units count as two units for purposes of sharing boxes – no other unit can be in a box with them.  The combined unit has the ammunition of the two component light units, so combined light infantry with javelins will typically have four ammunition and with bows, six. For movement, melee and evade purposes combined lights act as the equivalent lights units except that, when armed with javelin or lance, they are not required to evade when charged.  They may, however, still choose to evade.  (Combining light troops permits the representation of peltastoi and thureophoroi fighting as euzanoi in open formation, armed with javelins. LI fighting in this manner will replace many of the troops currently fighting as "javelinmen")



I'm thinking about publishing a small addendum to the rules to include various ideas that can sit on top of the v1.1 rules, and that I anticipate will later be included  in v2.  This is one such rule, another would be "great leaders". I'd welcome thoughts on the concept of the addendum, and on the rules!

Best, Simon
Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad
Remove this ad

#2 [url]

Jan 24 17 9:16 AM

Yes Steve- this is why I have been organising most of my light cavalry in pairs of bases that fit together (per the below photo). Around 40 of them are Parthians, as it happens- at the rear. 

image
 

Last Edited By: BigRedBat Jan 24 17 9:19 AM. Edited 1 time.

Quote    Reply   

#4 [url]

Jan 25 17 4:52 AM

Yes, this sounds a good idea Simon.

i wonder if the combined unit might be considered large, rather than 2 units. That way, it would be possible to have another light in the box, such as a light infantry unit with a combined light cavalry unit, or vice versa. I know 2 lights in a box currently fill it, but I imagine the combined unit as troops forming a skirmish line with a reserve (to give the added resilience), so maybe taking up less space than two separate bodies of lights. Having the combined unit as large would make it easier for other lights to pass through It, when those other lights are moving forward or evading.

RogerC

Quote    Reply   

#5 [url]

Jan 25 17 9:13 AM

Hmmm Roger. My intention is that the two light units form a single standard unit- only counting as two units for "stacking purposes". I didn't express that very well. I would say that i could well imagine the combined unit incorporating a main body with a skirmish line. I'm also nervous about fitting three units in a box- we could then be getting into re-basing territory! (I think I'd shoot myself. ;-) )

Quote    Reply   

#6 [url]

Jan 25 17 9:53 AM

...I'm currently thinking that the combined units should also be able to charge. They aren't the best melee troops in the world, as they only hit on 8+, but it would useful to extend the option of chargjng to them.

Quote    Reply   

#7 [url]

Jan 26 17 2:54 AM

Revised wording: -

Some ancient armies including the Numidians, Spanish and Successors included very numerous light troops who fought in large masses.
To represent these, before the battle starts, two identical light units may combine to form a combined unit. Players may not combine units of lights from different lines in an army list, except where specifically mentioned in an army list.
Such units have two hits, becoming disordered after a single hit and lost after a second, in which case two medals are surrendered. Combined units count as two units for purposes of sharing boxes – no other unit can be in a box with them. The combined unit has the ammunition of the two component light units, so combined light infantry with javelins will typically have four ammunition and with bows, six.
For movement, melee and evade purposes combined lights act as the equivalent lights units except that when they are armed with javelin or lance, they may frontally charge formed troops. This is an exception to the normal rule for light troops which does not permit this. Combined lights are not required to evade when charged but may, however, still choose to evade.
Combining light troops permits the representation of peltastoi and thureophoroi fighting as euzanoi in open formation, armed with javelins. It also gives a greater offensive capability to javelin and lance-armed light horse.

Quote    Reply   

#9 [url]

Jan 31 17 11:32 AM

Hi Simon!

Just a quick note to say that I fully support the idea of allowing certain light troops to combine to form normal-sized units. I think that would nicely capture the way peltasts, for example, performed in ancient battles.

I am also in favor of the addendum idea. Would anything more than Great Leaders and Combining Light Troops go in there?

Hope you're doing well and the very best of luck with all of the rules writing and painting prep (your Ipsus figures look amazing)!

Sincerely,
Justin

Quote    Reply   

#10 [url]

Jan 31 17 3:15 PM

Hi Justin,

I think it has legs, and the nice thing is it can be introduced before V2 so there's no need to wait.

Re the addendum (I'm open to to suggestions for a title BTW) also: -

* Army Standards
* Possibly the "extra elephants" idea- this would be a big help with the "Successor" lists that don't currently have proper elephant screens. Perhaps the way ahead would be to introduce a new unit "elephant screen"
* Possibly the "couched javelin" idea.
* Heavy chariots- I introduced an extra class that occurs in several lists in the Biblical book.

I will have a look at the other ideas I've recorded for V2 and see whether there are any other ideas that could be introduced now (ie that don't conflict with the v1.1a.rules).

I'm doing really well- I hope that you are too! Those minis are maybe 1/3 of the new minis for the end of March. :-)

BEst, Simon

Quote    Reply   

#11 [url]

Feb 2 17 9:10 AM

Hi Simon,

This sounds great! I will definitely look forward to seeing the addendum when it comes out. Any idea when that might be?

While I am still a bit apprehensive about the new elephant rules (for once, a rule suggestion strikes *me* as rather too complex!), including them in the addendum should be a great way to test them out.

Personally, having recently entered the final stage of the dissertation writing process, I am feeling pretty stressed and anxious at the moment. What I can also say, however, is that TtS!--and the Macedonian army it has inspired me to paint--continues to be positively invaluable in helping me maintain not only a sense of joy, but a sense of perspective, through this rather difficult time. So, as always, Simon, thank you so, so much!

Sincerely,
Justin

Quote    Reply   

#12 [url]

Feb 2 17 10:45 AM

Hi Justin,

I'll discuss the elephant before it goes in the supplement; if I can't get it right I won't include it.

I'm sorry to hear that things are stressful. Based on your input to the lists, though, I'm sure you will Ace it! After you've finished, we should swap notes about an Alexandrian army- I need to build one of my own, especially as I seem to be drifting into Persians... Guagamela here we come!

Best, Simon

Quote    Reply   

#13 [url]

Feb 3 17 1:49 AM

Thank you so much for the words of confidence, Simon! I sure appreciate it.

As for your Alexandrian army, yes, I would absolutely love to talk with you about it! I have been very taken with the Persians you've been raising lately, and would just love to see any Alexandrians you might raise at some point down the road. I can only imagine how spectacular a Gaugamela re-fight would look, especially if done Raphia-style!

Take care and all the best!

Justin

Quote    Reply   

#15 [url]

Mar 22 17 7:34 AM

For the proposed Combining Light Troops rule, do you think that would be useful for modeling something like the Samnites? I see in the Pyrrhic list that they are designated as small units of javelinmen. To field an army of them, would take a lot of units! :) I think javelinmen is a good class for the Samnites because of their strong melee capability, but they were also known for being adept at fighting in rough terrain, which would class them like light infantry javelinmen. Maybe having the choice of all of those options would work best.

I take it that it would be too early for the veteran-raw changes to be included in the addendum, as you indicated that those changes would require substantial playtesting.

Quote    Reply   

#16 [url]

Mar 22 17 8:30 AM

I have thought about the combined lights would be useful for some Southern Italian types. I'm not sure about Samnites, though, I'd need to do some research. My recent thinking inclines me to think that, as well as the combined lights, I would also need a "formed" troop type with extra javelins. These might be called "swordsmen".

Any changes to veteran/raw troops would be a v2 thing, so still at least a year/18 months away.

Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad
Add Reply

Quick Reply

bbcode help