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May 19 17 1:29 AM

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Hi Simon (and others),

last night after a game between Vikings (him) and Normans (me) there was some discussion about evading
the possibility of the Norman cavalry to evade on a 3+ (80%) was considered too high by the Viking (of course the Norman was quit happy with it :), I got caught 2 times on 10/15 evades)
and the fact that cavalry are considered identical to light horse in this was contested
now whether the light horse evade versus foot should be lowered to 2 or the cavalry evade versus foot should be upped to 4 or both I leave open to discussion
but I can understand that a swarm of riders (light horse) can more easily get out of the way of foot than a more closely formed body of horsemen (cavalry)
Would be interested in any feedback

Regards
Alex

ps the game went on for 4 hours without conclusion, he lost 11 out of 15, I lost 10 out of 13, but he would have had the better opportunities (give or take another hour)
 
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#1 [url]

May 19 17 4:00 AM

Quoting Mandy Rice-Davies "Well he would say that, wouldn't he?" ;-)

I gave cavalry a generous evade against foot because I wanted them to be able to generally dictate the pace of the fighting. I could give formed cavalry a lesser evade than unformed, but it would add complexity. In v2 evading cavalry will face AWAY which will disadvantage them, somewhat.

FOUR HOURS! An epic struggle. I find game durations are shortening, perhaps due to increased experience of the rules or the new rout test rule...

Best, Simon

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#2 [url]

May 19 17 4:58 AM

BigRedBat wrote:

FOUR HOURS! An epic struggle. I find game durations are shortening, perhaps due to increased experience of the rules or the new rout test rule...


 

Problem was me running and him chasing, each time we got to grips and inflicted damage, the other one had very good rallying, 7+ and 8+ were no problem yesterday, no problem at all

I lost 3 archers (because they could not evade) , 1 milites and 1 general, he lost 3 fyrd and and 1 general

I even evade off table several times (even with attached generals) just to come on again 

Alex

Last Edited By: pogo May 19 17 5:03 AM. Edited 4 times.

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#3 [url]

May 19 17 6:02 AM

The new rally rule (no rallying in a ZOC) might reduce that? Also did you take away medals for off-table units?

I am just collecting a Norman army- I am greatly encouraged!  ;-)

Last Edited By: BigRedBat May 19 17 6:08 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#4 [url]

May 19 17 11:02 AM

BigRedBat wrote:
The new rally rule (no rallying in a ZOC) might reduce that? Also did you take away medals for off-table units?

I am just collecting a Norman army- I am greatly encouraged!  ;-)

The reduction of the rally possibility when in ZOC feels all right, when/how will it be released ?
Yes I reduced medals when offtable and increased them when returning
we used the Norman light lance rule, I did not once used the javelins to shoot, just charge in and use an ammunition for the extra card, even hitting on an 8+ gave some extra hits 
we played that a hero (or heroic general) could only replay the basic card, not the light lance card, I hope we got that right
the cheesy part may have been the reload activation, followed by a charge
I had prepared 2 lists, an all cav and a mixed cav and bowmen (which i took, and lost the 3 units of bowmen)

Alex

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#5 [url]

May 19 17 11:35 AM

That's pretty much How I'd do the Normans- probably throw a javelins first, try to get a disorder, then charge in using the second one as a lance. Reload activation is valid... sounds like you did it right!

Rallying in a ZOC- might have that in the next release of "Even Stronger".

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#6 [url]

May 19 17 12:38 PM

Technically, if you read the current Zone of Control paragraph on page 40, it is not possible to rally in a ZOC even under the present rules. "A unit in an enemy zone of control may ONLY charge it, if able, or use a move activation to turn to face it or to retire directly to its own rear." No mention of rallying.

Mollinary

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#7 [url]

May 19 17 1:26 PM

Yes this is true Mollinary- but I need to spell it out! :-) I'll include it in the next iteration of "Even Stronger", in three or four weeks time.

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#8 [url]

May 19 17 10:43 PM

I might be in a minority here, but I would retain the ability to rally within a ZOC.

My argument is that it adds a game option. During the last Mega game weekend at the WHC, I had command of a pike group and I was trying to hold on whilst are successful wings got to do their thing. Now pike on pike is a grind and basically involves a lot of card pulling. By being able to rally I chose not to attack and focussed on rallies to keep the line intact. I had options rather then just fight, the rally option was basically my pikes on a defensive posture.

Options might be; a further -1 on rally within ZOC as well as the other factors or only allowing rallying within a zoc with a general present, so something like Caesar rushing to the unit under pressure from the Gauls and personally rallying them and throwing them back in the fight.  The Battle of Sabis is a good example where Caesar picked up a shield and fought in person to shore up Legio XII who were crumbling from the attack by the Nervii. 

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#9 [url]

May 19 17 11:53 PM

Hi Sidley,

I do see where you are coming from, and that was how I intended rally to work. However, at present it is rather too easy to rally a unit. A further activation penalty might help with this, though; I'll give it some thought.

Best, Simon

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#10 [url]

May 20 17 2:10 AM

...at one stage in development had the modifiers for enemy units applying to the save rather than to the activation. This was, perhaps, a better system, since it more dramatically reduced the rally opportunity.

My hands are somewhat tied, however, by wanting to avoid contradicting anything in the current rules. I'll have much more leeway in v2.

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#11 [url]

May 20 17 6:01 AM

I have to admit, I also like the opportunity for units to rally in ZOC. However, I see this as more so a characteristic of non-light infantry. My impression is that cavalry tended to withdraw and rally, taking advantage of their greater mobility. Infantry generally had more staying power in melee because of their greater density, discipline, and probably because the alternative was withdrawing and possibly being hit from behind. If it were my vote, I would permit the rallying of infantry in ZOC, maybe with a small negative modifier; but with cavalry or light infantry, either disallow it, or utilize a bigger negative modifier.

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#13 [url]

May 22 17 6:33 AM

I might revisit a penalty on the rallying unit in a ZOC- perhaps -2 instead of the -1 that there used to be at one stage. This would halve the chance of an average quality unit rallying in a ZOC, which seems about right. The rally back for horse is a nice idea... we've something similar in FKaP.

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